clockworkpi

Dimensions of DevTerm?

I looked through the main DevTerm page several times and although the dimensions of the individual modules are listed I cannot see the dimensions of the DevTerm shell itself or the knobs on the sides. If someone has the dimensions I would be very grateful. I want to know if it will fit in my bag.

It seems it’s the sameish dimensions of an A5 notebook, which is 150mmx210mm.
Can definitely fit a backpack of a small bag.

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You can derive the size of the thing by using the render of the LCD with dimensions

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The keyboard is 190mm x 78mm, so the device will be about 190mm x 160mm (basically, the same width and twice the height of the keyboard).

Can you explain how you have such precise measurement for the keyboard?

Thanks, not sure if it was there to begin with?! I don’t remember to have seen dimensions on the website when they released the info.

And I’ve raised you to level 2, so you should no longer have a low limit of post / day

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Thank you, @Godzil. Much appreciated, buddy.

Just to be clear, I really like DevTerm, but worry people will be badly disappointed with the keyboard, and will not be able to properly enjoy a device that is otherwise awesome.

The modular design and kit-form make it possible for Clockwork to release a better keyboard (and new front case), but given their current schedule, it’s probably too late to radically redesign the keyboard before launch.

In an ideal world, Clockwork would publish the specs for a new keyboard before launch, and let people with pre-orders decide whether to take a DevTerm using the current design on launch day, or accept a delay and receive their DevTerm with a redesigned keyboard later in the year. On the other hand, given that Clockwork have done nothing wrong, it would be perfectly reasonable for them to just deliver what they promised, then release a better keyboard later that early adopters could easily retrofit.

To be clear, there’s no need for Cherry MX compatibility, nor even mechanical switches. That was just my suggestion. They do need full-sized keys, with at least four rows of ten, which is fairly convenient, as that’s exactly how many keys fit in the space available, and also kind of problematic, as the keyboard needs to house a D-pad and four face buttons too.

For now, I’d be happy if Clockwork acknowledged our concerns, and gave us some information on what the current keyboard is actually like in practice. Ideally, they would also commit to a conversation about developing alternative keyboards for the platform, even if they want to leave that conversation until after they’ve fulfilled their current commitments.

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My fear is that it will go the same way as GameShell, in terms of contact/updates from Clockwork. Out of the box, GameShell was an excellent piece of hardware (if assembled carefully), but it was arguably lacking in terms of software/OS and user experience issues with the software. It also shipped with a very small battery capacity, though the case could have held a physically larger one.

Luckily, what could be considered the two largest problems with GameShell were addressed by people in the community. I’m guessing there would have been fewer active users of GameShell without the custom OS and software packaging work @javelinface provided. He went above and beyond, which was amazing, but I’d argue that some of the OS basics and software “gotchas” might have been handled by Clockwork in official OS updates. Even stability issues and support were largely done by the community (which is great), but some of that core work was never rolled back into the official OS. I honestly have no desire to use the official OS since it pales in comparison to the work community members have done.

Similarly, battery replacement options were researched, tested, and reported on by the community. Basically we all rigged up our own, after learning about it and choosing an option that we were more confident in using. It would have been nice to have seen Clockwork get involved there too, even if only near the end of the process to acquire and resell some “extended” batteries.

So I guess what I’m trying to say is that DevTerm owners may get lucky again in terms of software if a few users step up and devote time to getting things to work better. But since the keyboard is a potential hardware issue, I’m not sure what to expect with it. Maybe someone akin to @javelinface will appear, design a solution, and produce and sell a keyboard replacement, or at least source all the parts and provide that information for others to use. I hope so!

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I’m totally new to this community, so am interested to learn what has happened with issues in the past.

I was operating on the assumption that the DevTerm keyboard could only be fixed by the DevTerm guys, but you’re right, @adcockm; the community could plausibly create a keyboard on our own initiative.

The DevTerm seems doomed, if the keyboard is not fixed. Many people in this forum think they’ll be able to comfortably touch type on the DevTerm, and that it would be great for distraction-free writing sessions, that it is perfect for working in the field, that they will be developing games on it. These utterly unrealistic expectations will not survive a ten minute hands-on review.

A lot of the disconnect seems to stem from overestimations of the device’s proportions. For example, @Godzil (who seems like a nice guy) thought this picture (I’d posted elsewhere) must not be to scale:

Note: The top of the MINILA is slightly further away, so perspective naturally makes the upper rows smaller (on screen), but I scaled that image based on the bottom corners of the MINILA, so the lower rows of the MINILA and the entire DevTerm keyboard are 1:1. If you click on the image to see it at its proper resolution, it uses 3 pixels per millimeter.

If more people see images like that one, I think they will realize we have a serious problem.

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I just wanted to mention here that this issue has been discussed in another thread, where there was some solid pushback based on real-world experiences with similar keyboards on pocket computers from back in the day. In short, many people can type proficiently enough to be productive on these mini-keyboards, and some people prefer the current design to having 40 chunky MX keycaps (technically 39, because of the Spacebar).

It’s impossible to extrapolate any kind of figures from the handful of people that have contributed to the conversation so far, but it seems like many people would prefer an MX keyboard option, and the current keyboard will be a dealbreaker for some of them (me, at least), but there’s nothing wrong with the current design, and many people would choose it over an MX keyboard, if both existed.

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There is one point that looks weird to me on the keyboard is the trackball/mouse button, we will see how it behave in real life, but that’s a really unusual disposition.

If you compare the DevTerm keyboard to a Thinkpad keyboard with trackpoint mouse the dimensions are very similar, so I think the trackball and mouse buttons positions chosen makes sense ergonomically.

Also, to the original question, extrapolating from the keyboard dimensions, the overall size of the DevTerm seem to be about 200mm wide (215mm with knobs), 157mm tall, 20mm (25mm including keys) deep at the keyboard and 30mm thick at the rear.

It’s a little frustrating that the overall dimensions haven’t been put out, given that the CAD model looks complete.

Yeah, I do what to see more specs. Like the detailed dimensions of this.

Maybe, just maybe, we can see a later pro version of this, with every larger?

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From my experience, what makes it attractive to me is that I could resolve things on a pinch! I have countless of SBCs and MCUs but what makes them stay in the drawer mostly? Its the time it will take me to get it to work, hooking display, keyboard, mouse… DevTerm feels like it could be a Swiss Army Knife for me.

On the other hand I prefer this kind of keyboards that have more keys but small over few keys ones, It almost reminds me of the Nokia 6610 where you had to press couple of times.

I guess I am just lazy busy. :sweat_smile:

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i love the form of it, there’s a lot of things i could do with this that are actually a bigger pain re: carrying around a macbook pro. plus, i’ve wanted a system to use with linux exclusively and this will be great to use standalone, not to mention connected to a display with bluetooth keyboard and mouse.

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