Community Build OS version

anyone interested in assisting with taking 0.4 and “adjusting” it to use an apt source for updates/etc? I can do the hosting and some of the work, but the initial setup wont be quick or simple as all the custom packages they’ve compiled will need to be redone or “exported” if there’s some way. my thinking is we can then setup something like a rolling-release and keep things up to date easier.

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off course yes,

also my custom apt repo is already ready :slight_smile:

well no need to re-create the wheel. are you able to configure it so that others can upload packages? [after an obvious approval process]

I honestly don’t thing APT should be the way to go for system update on such device.

But good luck with that project :slight_smile:

for major internal system change it’s not

but for particular system part or emu & games it far way better than current anarchy

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@Godzil You know apt is what major Debian based systems use for major system updates right? sudo apt-get dist-upgrade and sudo apt-get full-upgrade upgrades the distribution, updates apt-sources, installs / updates / removes software, updates the linux kernel, etc.

The only problem I see here, is that the ClockworkOS img is a uboot image separated into 2 partitions, boot and clockwork. Not sure apt would work in this scenario for the kernel itself, but its a step in the right direction. All the launchers should be packages, the included games should be packages, etc, etc. apt is perfect for this part.

@duckyvirus @r043v, I’m in for helping, as always.

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i need check for chrooting that specific part ^^

r043v and I are already discussing the repo. I will be getting the repo up and configured ASAP and get it laid out. this means listing all the custom packages and potentially rebuilding them so I would love help sorting out the custom packages and porting/rebuilding. maybe we can have something up in a week or so.

msg me if you need a dpkg/apt primer as for Godzil APT/DPKG were the VERY FIRST “networked” package solution and everyone else has worked to mimic their functionality. I’m sure you have your reason for disliking the idea of using it for an update mech, but its only missing a frontend in the launcher [which i’ve seen someone make something like already] and it could become a great solution for updates/maintenance. but to each their own. I’m not looking to replace the officials just maybe make life a lot easier for those that want new/improved features without the 200 lines to compile/install/etc.

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Just let me know how I can help / give me tasks. If possible, an issue tracker / task manager would be great (redmine, openproject, or even just GitHub issues) to help plan and distribute work. In the meantime I’m going to continue to mess with custom kernel / image building.

Or a trello backlog. Hmm the frontend in the launcher seems a good idea, I might have a look at it

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Thanks Captain Obvious.

Now have you ever tried to upgrade a Raspberry Pi using APT ?

apt is awful even on powerful computer, so on SBC like a Pi or the CPi it is nearly unuseable for more than installing a couple of packages. Debian is not well suited for embedded system and tools like APT are super heavy and computing intensive.
The number of partition have nothing to do with the update process or APT, most linux distro use a /boot partition along with a root filesystem and it is no problem at all.

Also it there is, and will never be a per device specific kernel and bootloader in any distro other than distro made for that device. (BTW, even the rPi fundation don’t recommend to upgrade the kernel and bootloader for the Pi using raspbian ATP, but by using their tool)

PS as some need a primer. APT is not the original tool, APT is way more recent than the DPKG tool itself and .deb format, and sorry, but it is not because it’s the first it is the best (and no I’m not saying that RedHat RPM is better, it’s not)

APT/DPKG is not well suited for embedded system, the Raspberry Pi is the best proof of it.

PPS: DPKG don’t do any “network” thing by itself, it need a front-end like ATP to do that.

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upgrading the ton of outdated packages on fresh os 0.4 took ~ one hour yesterday

but don’t forget it’s a system far more powerful than some pc we got for decades,
yet the sd may be intensified used during update, hoping for stable wifi and using an usb external power is recommended but hey it’s still a pc anyway

also with a custom repo we not need upgrade the full system for upgrade our packages
if you try pingu it’s primary philosophy was to manually setup & update per packages, not globally
also i think using deb dependency we could grab from classic repo just what is need for each packages without bloating lambda users for hours of setup

what would you see as valid alternative ? rsync ?

archlinuxarm got uboot, linux, headers, drivers for each supported platforms i’m working on a port

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Godzil, I did a complete update on my CPI using apt in < 30min. maybe you should look closer at the SD cards your using? I’ve never had the issue you’ve brought up on anything past the original Raspberry.

however Id like to also point out that ANY package system has similar contraints as they’re all written in python or similar. ever try to use yum on a RPI? apt is definitely one of the quicker ones. but we’re not trying to argue that is not the point of this thread. we already agree’d for a full system/fresh image apt may not be the best, but I intent to add a repo for the custom (cpi specific) packages and let the default debian armhf stand. this is a community FORKED idea so its not like we intend to force this on everyone, it will be an OPTIONAL and SEPERATE install. if you don’t like it, please feel free to not use it. the entire plan is simply to make it easier to keep things up-to-date and speed up bug fixes/etc.

the existing launcher update uses GIT and everytime you update it resets your config (this may NOT still be an issue but was recently) dpkg is smart and wont replace things without asking first.

and 1 final thing to your PPS: some of us (IE me) have been using linux & DEB-IAN since you were still in diapers, we don’t need schooling.

r043v (i’m down if you want to try an arch/AUR type setup as well)

Just like to start off that I’m sorry if me asking if you knew apt was commonly used for dist upgrades came off as offensive for whatever reason, it wasn’t my intention (I legitimately do not know what your skill level is). Your response however is a little out of line. Let’s refrain from name calling and combative content please (everyone).

To your points however, the rPi foundation actually poses apt as the common and for most cases easiest and most convenient way to upgrade your system and distribution (and yes, I have done this). Only when it comes down to needing certain requirements does it recommend other means than apt due to its, yes, lack of robustness. In their words, these other methods are “of interest”. On the partitions, you may be right, which is why I stated and made it fairly obvious that I was “Not sure”, because well, I’m not.

For everything else, I’m not sure you were responding to me? So I’ll leave that alone.

For the purposes of this effort, apt should work just fine, and would actually probably be just fine for kernel updates as well, but probably not at the moment (not sure it being heavy or intensive is or should be a major concern). If you know of any other tools or technologies that may be of interest, let us know.

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