if there is a delay, i just wanna know. other than that, when people announce hopes and promising updates… i just like to offer gentle reminders as a symbol of me holding ppl to their words. integrity and accountability.
I’m already waiting on a delayed device. I ordered a Flipper Zero July 2020, and of course, Covid and the chip shortage has messed with their production. They’ve also been working out some pretty big kinks.
I’m antsy about my Devterm because it’s basically radio silence from the team. Flipper, on the other hand, is documenting and communicating about the production process. They have a road map, and they’re talking to the community. I would feel a lot better, and certainly more understanding if we got something similar from Clockworkpi instead of checking the site to see that the “shipping in” has come and gone again
I got a coupon for the flipper for the release after. That one is exciting too
confirm, i haven’t received any tracking info
Heck, I didn’t even find this thread until I clicked on the “July 2021” “link” (the thing without any visual indicator that it links anywhere), to this thread.
I still side with the team working to birth new hardware into this world, given the current conditions, but yeah, communication on delays has been abysmal.
I ordered a DevTerm Kit a couple of weeks ago now, hoping for a July delivery as advertised, but doing so with the understanding that delays were possible or even likely. It’s a new product design, probably even now still going through refinements. There’s a pandemic and an electronic hardware shortage on. I understand how this sort of thing goes. I’m not expecting the world. I have to agree with what others seem to be feeling, though, in that the lack of communication is disappointing.
The last official word I see in this thread is yong saying that orders would be shipped within 30 days. That was posted on 10 June. Now that time has come and gone. The post said we’d hear if there are any updates, but it seems that we haven’t.
Clockwork team, please. If there is uncertainty, if there are delays, I think we can all be patient and understanding about this. But it helps if these things are actually communicated, so we know what to be patient and understanding about. Certainly, saying that we should expect to hear something within a certain time frame and then not following through with it does not inspire patience or understanding, just disappointment and some level of frustration.
Yeah, I was saying the se thing… Yong said 30 days, which has come and gone… but that was before the websites front page was updated to say July instead of June (after it said april?) Then after some of us mentioned how the page still said June, it got updated to what it says now… which says “in July.” This kind of communication feels kinda bollucksed honestly…
come and gone… at this point, im not holding my breath anymore even for this week… or the the following week. at this point im pretty sure they are gonna wait till the very last week of july to start shipping. probably sitting pretty on a pile of prepacked packages… Im pretty sure that if they at least told us in the next 3 weeks or even by the end of the month… we could all tide over with that tidbit. except nothing but radio silence. just the sound of our own squelch.
I’m pretty new to working with Clockwork, but they appear to be very focused on the product. A much higher focus on the product than I see from the Kickstarter projects, which have to also focus a great deal on than on the community, communication in general, and outreach. This is a shock to some coming from Kickstarter campaigns, where you are not pre-purchasing a product, but rather supporting an idea, that may or may not come with a “reward” of some kind. As a backer in that context, what you’ve really paid for is communication, status updates, and community engagement, and the possibility of a product. Flipper was mentioned upthread, and I took a look. Sure enough, it’s a Kickstarter project. So yeah, they are focusing a lot on communicating about how the project is doing; that’s what backers are really paying for (though projects obviously want to deliver goods as well).
Kickstarter has a lot of text about their philosophy here:
One of our biggest expectations for creators is that they regularly update backers on their project’s progress and notify them of any delays or roadblocks that may impact their estimated delivery time. We expect creators to be open and honest with their backers during all stages of their project’s life cycle.
At the same time, backers must understand that Kickstarter is not a store. When you back a project on Kickstarter, you’re helping create something new — not pre-ordering something that already exists. As Kickstarter does not offer refunds, we encourage backers to investigate the project idea first, to vet the creator thoroughly, and to assess the inherent risk of the project for themselves before making a pledge.
DevTerm is not a Kickstarter project, but it is a store. I’ve preordered, and the ship date has been delayed twice. In the same way other companies don’t give customers huge insights into their day-to-day production, neither is Clockwork; when a delay hits, they do give some insight into the source and when the next update will be. I’m not saying it’s great or it’s what I prefer, but I get their priorities. It makes sense.
That said, when delays have occurred, the team has been consistent in updating the dates they have provided as soon as they are no longer correct. So I would be stunned if we don’t hear anything by August 1st, and that’s what I expected after it got pushed past June. If they update the date on 31 July to say “Will ship in August 2021”, then I’ll expect another update by 31 Aug. At least, that’s what I think I’ve observed when the last two delays occurred. It’s not frequent communication, but it is consistent and professional, I think.
Again, I’m not excited about the delays, but I understand why they are happening, and the team is giving us new estimates when the old ones no longer make sense. Just my two cents.
And what a loaded 2 cents it was! I echo your point of view about this being a pre-order and not a kickstarter, major difference here. It is because it’s a preorder item that I actually pulled the trigger to buy the devterm; I was never a supporter for kickstarters, too many things can go wrong (ie: I saw the nextthing.co downfall, got a chip/pocketchip despite others not getting it).
I guess you are right about @yong mentioning the date, so the whole of July is a valid timescale. Stay put until 1st August? We’ve already waited some since April, what’s a few more weeks eh?
if they delay again… then they really are messing with us… the very last day they can ship on time is the 30th. that is the expectation at this point. that everything is packed, labeled and ready to go and they are just sitting on it, biding their time with a glass of wine till the 30th. then we all shipping and tracking notifications.
they said most of the work was done over a week ago… think about it
Everyone is definitely entitled to their perceptions, but it seems a bit unfair – or at least uncharitable – to assume that cpi is hanging out having a launch celebration while the boxes sit in a warehouse all set to go.
It could totally be the case that they are sitting packed and labeled waiting for the courier, but there’s likely some genuine reason why they couldn’t get them out on time. Import/export paperwork, waiting for an invoice from someone, etc.; it could literally be a single signature on a single piece of paper, or an email that hasn’t landed in someone’s inbox yet that is holding everything up. I’m sure that cpi is just as frustrated with missing their target as some of us are.
I’ve sat in on dozens of group buys and pre-orders, and it sucks to have stuff delayed. But theorizing in the forums about what exactly the devs are up to every minute of every day past their deadlines really just makes it worse for everyone. At best, it’s frustrating to read though a few dozen negative messages saying the same two things, but at worst newcomers are gonna get the idea that the devs are untrustworthy, that the product is vaporware, or even just get a tarnished view of the community. Nothing turns people off of contributing like a community perceived as demanding or toxic.
Other users have pointed out the differences between a pre-order like the DevTerm’s and a Kickstarter. One of the benefits of a true pre-order is that you’ve paid for a product, not the experience a kickstarter gives you. If people are well and truly done waiting for the DevTerm, go to your bank and send out a chargeback for a product not received (edit: or reach out to cpi to see if you can cancel/refund your order in light of delays - I’m sure they’ll be understanding. A chargeback should be a last resort).
Imho it would make sense to ship a few units to reviewers first (in case they got any partners or even work with that business model). I ended up cancelling my order until I see a review and fall in love again with the idea. Meanwhile I’ll be keen to hear any GameSH revision news.
There have been many who already have contacted cpi to have their preorders canceled. All this in light in light of how much these pre-orders mean to them…
For all we know, they’ve all been shipped on a slow boat…
And people should also not forget that 2020 and 2021 are nothing but normal year, including worldwide pandemic which is something we never really saw for about a century, and something that is reasonably brand new: a shortage on electronic components which put delay on a LOT of stuff and CPi is not a bit name in the industry, they will not be the first to be serve if they are still waiting for a lot of components that are impacted by the shortage.
Asking a pre-order to be on time because you can’t be a bit patient with the current circumstances, well. Just send cpi an email and ask for a refund, because unlike kickstarter they are legally obliged to send you the product you bought else to refund you.
Don’t forget that the fact they haven’t finished the devterm also have an impact on them, it prevent them to make money because they don’t have stock to sell, nor they can work on producing more gameshell or an update to it.
Definitely the biggest takeaway here, for sure. Anyone that’s tried to create any project - hardware, software, or otherwise - should be able to empathize with creators that are running into roadblocks. I’ve been a lurker here since my preorder back in Nov. 2020, and decided to create an account here as activity started picking up now that everyone is starting to await shipping/arrival, but have definitely noticed an emerging trend in the last few weeks.
Being anxious and excited is understandable, and there’s a level of impatience that’s inevitable, but it’s definitely frustrating to see some members of the community track deadlines like a hawk and immediately assume the worst. Arguing the semantics of a 30-day deadline or “shipping in July” isn’t worth it - doesn’t put anyone’s mind at ease, and doesn’t really encourage cpi to give more updates, honestly. It’s fair criticism that communication has been sparse, but it’s been pretty sparse since day 1. Harping on that point in the forums is not the best way to encourage more updates, in my opinion – it certainly wouldn’t work for me.
Every pre order/group buy I’ve been in in the last 24 months has been impacted by the pandemic/parts shortage in some way. Among all of those, the 3/4 month delay from “before April 2021” to July 2021 for DevTerm has been the shortest thus far.
It’s pretty hard, as a startup, to take what little capital you’ve built from the last project to fund a new project. Both suffer to some degree… who suffers more is a matter of perspective… I’m still getting a devterm in august (i dont expect to get it sooner). All the GS fans are gonna be waiting for the DT to kick off enough to start pumping out more GShells, which will find the ideas they likely already have as upgrades/dates.
@yong pretty please can we have an update?, we are really excited about this!
scratches head while staring at the github
I wonder if they even started flashing tf cards, yet? I mean have they not told us that they would iron out everything first, to make sure the image was truly ready, to prevent wasted time by having to wipe the cards and then reflash them, (almost tripling the time it takes to prepare all the cards)
The github was touched 2 days ago… but i get the feeling there are more coming…
That could be it…speakers, fan, printer, keyboard and a 32bit armhf kernel. i might have to have to build up from an arm64 netinstall
scratches chin in ponderment
I wonder If they’ll ship out like the shells originally did? …before amazon…
China first, then whichever country is most convenient for the shipper.
If memory serves, they are in Guangzhou. So the package can reach most of the cities in China within 24 hours should they choose sf-express to deliver.
It’s a pity the upcoming game jam ‘BoooM’ held by gcores is not GS/DT only like last year’s.
There are several tweets by Hal with pictures. The first one says we should receive it very soon.
I wonder how soon is very soon.